plumtreeblossom | So Very Wrong

Every single dating-strategies-for-men website or column I've ever read has been chock full of advice that would send this woman screaming for the hills or slamming doors in faces. I don't know who is writing them, but they sure don't know how real women respond to manipulative behavior and just plain rudeness.

I just took an online dating test for men, and I answered exactly how I, as a woman, would want a man to behave/act in each scenario. I failed the test! The answer key explained why.

Don't call/e-mail her for a week after the first date. Don't accept an e-mail address instead of a home phone number. If she won't kiss you on the first date, dump her; she's not interested. Use a homely woman to attract a gorgeous woman.

I am willing to wager money that no lesbian dating book suggests these things.

Every one of these would be grounds for dismissal in the very early stages of dating with me, with very few exceptions (if you get hit by a bus after our date, you don't have to e-mail me within a week of our date). I have to wonder what these date-flailing men who spend hundreds of dollars on books and "systems" to get more hawt babez think when some bitch like me says NO to a 2nd date after being told "You can reach the salt just fine yourself." In some cases I see multiple levels of material that the men have to continue buying to ensure success, but to sell it, the company has to ensure early failure. I don't see this bad behavior much in the poly community, but someone in the mono world is gettin' scammed.

I should get a panel of women together and write a real dating advice book for men. Advice directly from the intended target, not some aging Love Doctor who's arbitrarily (and profitably) decided that women put out for men (or women) who treat them like crap. I know otherwise. ;-)

(Working title: You Want A Date? You Can't Handle A Date!)

Heh, between me and my girls with dating experience, we probably have a collective 300 years of experience and advice to give.

I can remember personals ads dates where I was quite sure one of those strategic systems was being used on me. I wonder if they thought "WTF, I paid $200 for that set of dating tapes" while watching my backside exiting Starbucks.

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I think the thing men don't get is that we don't put up that invisible barrier against nice guys because we prefer bad boys. We put up the barrier because by the time a woman reaches adulthood we have had so many dickheads lie to us, manipulate us and generally be sleazy to us that at first we can't tell the difference between a nice guy and a jerk so we protect ourslevs until we feel like we can trust you. this is just the way life is. So instead of being frustrated with women go kick those guys who made us have ot act that way in the junk!

I'd love to go around kicking them in the gonads. I'm a professional martial artist -- I love kicking things.

I also have a lot of pent up anger against the bad boys/man-children of the Earth. Dating back into my teens, I've longed for the nice girl, and even been open about my feelings for her. I think of High School and College now. But her eye was often on the bad boy, the "artist", or the man-child, and a woman's lust is the most powerful force on the face of this Earth. You're swimming against the torrent in that situation.

Sadly, these same men still have no trouble attracting women into their thirties, with the same ruinous consequences for their female partners.

I've had the good fortune of knowing two of these men (the bad-boy and "artist") in their mid to late 30's. If it is any consolation, they often feel trapped by their own behaviour, unable to change as that is the only game they know, yet unable to form a committed relationship based on love and family.

So as much as I'd love to go around kicking these men (before they reach the age where the errors of their ways becomes apparent), I learned that women just have to make their own choices in romance, just as much as men have to choose the right woman for them.

Feel free to rant abot the misguided men who choose the bad woman.

As far as kicking guys in the gonads... i could give you a few addresses!

But really! For all the men there are sitting around wondering why girls like assholes, there are just as many girls sitting around wondering why nice guys fall for manipulative bitches. REALLY you never see through the most obvious mind games! Why does it only take one catty bitch to batt her eyelashes and get you hooked? What is it!?

Okay, okay, I admit I have gone for the badboy/ emotionally crippled man child thing a few times. I'm stll not 100% sure why I do it and I can't answer for other girls, but i have a few theories:
1) I'm terrified of falling for someone and settling down. If I only date jackasses then there's no danger of that. Also, I hate being hurt. If I date a douchebag I can just say, "he was an asshole" and move on easily when her screws me over.
2) We like challenges.
3) Sometimes danger= sexy. I think this is why boys go for crazy girls too.

Luckily I've discovered recently that underneath every good boy there is a bad boy lurking, and all it takes is the right girl to find it. There is nothing like having a loving and trusting relationship with a little danger thrown in for good measure!

Luckily I've discovered recently that underneath every good boy there is a bad boy lurking, and all it takes is the right girl to find it. There is nothing like having a loving and trusting relationship with a little danger thrown in for good measure!

I was going to say something like this before you did! I, unfortunately, often have had the problem of falling for guys who need to be 'saved" in some way, which is another reason women go for those types - they're oh-so-tragic and OMG I can CHANGE HEEEM!

Uh, no.

But I've found more and more as I get older that what I like is not a guy who's "bad" or "troubled," but a guy who is *truly* confident and strong within himself. Weeding those guys out from the ones who are truly just cocky assholes can be difficult, but it gets easier.

I think the reason women don't go for "nice" guys as much is because they seem weak, or like they have no self-esteem. It's a tricky balance, this being yourself business; the most attractive thing in the world is a guy who is unapologetically who he is, *and* doesn't play games. (Well, except the fun kind...)

These are such great points. I admit, I've done the "OMG I CAN CHANGE HIM!" Thing more than once. thankfully I've outgrown it.

I think you are right in that nice guys seem like they have low self esteem. That and sometimes they're afraid to approach women so it isn't as easy to tell when they are interested in the first place.

"the most attractive thing in the world is a guy who is unapologetically who he is, *and* doesn't play games. (Well, except the fun kind...)"

That is just what I was trying to say, only said better!

I've done the "OMG But I can chaaaaaannnggeee hheeeerrrrrr" more than enough. It could be argues that I'm still doing it.

I was trying to go through all the excuses I've ever made for bad women in my life.

I agree with you that nice men sometimes come across as lacking self confidence, and I would hazard a guess that many nice men do lack this self confidence. I certainly have confidence problems that stem back to rejection in adolescence. Of course, this is no excuse, and being nice doesn't compensate for lacking confidence. Confidence is so sexy. For me, it can compensate for almost anything (sometimes even too much). I suspect this lack of confidence is the invisible barrier around nice men that I refer to, like a shroud that masks their attractiveness. I think many of these men do become more confident in a relationship, but that's just like me wanting a women to be more hot/smart/funny once she's in a relationship.

(I've been sick again the past two days so I apologize for the slow response. I also always seem to engage in these pensive, slow motion LJ conversations)

In short, I agree with you completely. And if the girl starts with the crying...

Sure, I like to believe that I am immune to the same dating disasters that befall women. Of course, I am just as susceptible.

It amazes me how much attraction can cloud one's judgment.

There are many, many awful women that I've given full pardons to in life; girls that other women can't stand. They'll wonder aloud how I can put up with such a bitch.

Yet no matter how much of a bitch they are, no matter how flaky or shallow or just fucked up they are, I'll make the same excuses that women make for the wrong men.

For me, I've been unable to determine whether it is the challenge or the danger, but that's a separate story.

I agree that danger is sexy. I'm talking about sexy danger (like doing it in a public place where you stand the risk of being discovered) versus stupid danger (dating the girl who steals from you, cheats on you, starts fires and not in a good way, is otherwise psychotic, etc.)

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Living dangerously, without the clown serial killer