So Very Wrong

[plumtreeblossom]

Every single dating-strategies-for-men website or column I've ever read has been chock full of advice that would send this woman screaming for the hills or slamming doors in faces. I don't know who is writing them, but they sure don't know how real women respond to manipulative behavior and just plain rudeness.

I just took an online dating test for men, and I answered exactly how I, as a woman, would want a man to behave/act in each scenario. I failed the test! The answer key explained why.

Don't call/e-mail her for a week after the first date. Don't accept an e-mail address instead of a home phone number. If she won't kiss you on the first date, dump her; she's not interested. Use a homely woman to attract a gorgeous woman.

I am willing to wager money that no lesbian dating book suggests these things.

Every one of these would be grounds for dismissal in the very early stages of dating with me, with very few exceptions (if you get hit by a bus after our date, you don't have to e-mail me within a week of our date). I have to wonder what these date-flailing men who spend hundreds of dollars on books and "systems" to get more hawt babez think when some bitch like me says NO to a 2nd date after being told "You can reach the salt just fine yourself." In some cases I see multiple levels of material that the men have to continue buying to ensure success, but to sell it, the company has to ensure early failure. I don't see this bad behavior much in the poly community, but someone in the mono world is gettin' scammed.

I should get a panel of women together and write a real dating advice book for men. Advice directly from the intended target, not some aging Love Doctor who's arbitrarily (and profitably) decided that women put out for men (or women) who treat them like crap. I know otherwise. ;-)

(Working title: You Want A Date? You Can't Handle A Date!)

Heh, between me and my girls with dating experience, we probably have a collective 300 years of experience and advice to give.

I can remember personals ads dates where I was quite sure one of those strategic systems was being used on me. I wonder if they thought "WTF, I paid $200 for that set of dating tapes" while watching my backside exiting Starbucks.

Comments

[mangosteen]

So what do you think of books like The Rules?

[androidqueen.livejournal.com]

heh, i would *love* to help you out with this, if you want the perspective of a geeky, career-driven girl. :)

[trowa-barton.livejournal.com]

I recommend watching "Can't Get a Date" on VH1.

[joyeous.livejournal.com]

Ugh! Those italiced rules you listed are horrible! I would probably think the person wasn't interested if they didn't call for a week. I would think the person either was a stalker, telemarketer, or just a dumbass who didn't know how to use email if they insisted on getting my number. I would think they were only interested in sex to begin with, if they dumped me if I didn't kiss them on the first date. And WTF for that last one??? Seriously!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_mattt/]

Hello Mare. I'm joyeous's friend. We met at the puppet show thing. I couldn't help but notice this thread.

As a heterosexual man, those rules are bunk. Plain and simple. You can't apply hard and fast rules to a diverse population, even amongst heterosexual women.

Think about it: if those magazines actaully gave good advice, men would get married, their wives would cancel their subscription, and they'd go out of business. I jest, but I've often wondered if it is in their best interest to give bad advice.

The last example, however, is believed to be true by many men. Many men (and maybe I am included?) believe that a woman's sense of jealousy can be subconsciously triggered, thereby providing a (perhaps false) elevated level of interest. Dating is an ugly business.

[mindflankr.livejournal.com]

I'm on board with your book deal......I've been going on a lot of dates recently, and I have to say, I am NOT impressed at what some of these men think is proper dating etiquette. In fact, I've been thinking about becoming a 'dating consultant' for men who are serious about finding a partner. But then I wonder.....isn't it better to just be who you are and if you fit with someone, you just fit?

[http://users.livejournal.com/urban_faerie_/]

This entry makes me think of the movie Swingers where they talk about, "Not calling their babies for 6 days" after a date. There is just so much male propaganda saying you can't look like you like a girl and so much female propaganda saying if you call you'll look like a desperate relationship hungry harpy.

It's things like this that remind me that so many people still believe this stuff. Myself, I think 2-3 days is polite. I'm not interested in being contacted a week or two later buy a guy who's pretending I'm an afterthought when hes' really been planning to call me all week. I wouldn't even run screaming if the *right* guy called me the day after a really great date.

Dating is so nerve racking, I wish both sexes would just cut the crap and deal straight. We all go through hell playing mind games and trying ot manipulate each other or predict the furure when all we all really want is a little affection. I think we need to call a truce in the dating war!

[library-sexy.livejournal.com]

So my co-worker's sister ordered some books to have her Mother bring back to her (she lives out of the country) and didn't look at the dates of print (or I hope she missed it)

The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Dating & Mating Dr. Albert Ellis copyright 1979
The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Man-Hunting Dr. Albert Ellis copyright 1963
How to Raise an Emotionally Healthy Happy Child Dr. Albert Ellis copyright 1966

From the bits and pieces I read I would not recommend his work, unless you are looking for a good laugh.

Dating is extremely different in other countries. I have a few co-workers who group up outside the US and it is interesting to hear their stories of what is "normal" for women where they group up and who they are with professional carriers and how they fit in.

[lillibet.livejournal.com]

Count me in!

[noire.livejournal.com]

I'm in! And having been the "homely one" in that bit more than once I can say that it's the most evil kind of thing. Us homely girls sometimes have something to offer, and it's just nasty to be used that way.

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

The thing is -- those rules are designed to attract and keep a specific type of woman -- one that might be termed "doormat sex toy."

See, if you use those rules, and you DO end up with a woman, you can be guaranteed that, until she wises up and kicks your fat, lazy ass out, you'll be able to mooch off of her, and make her get you beer and give you blowjobs.

Now, obviously, those rules don't actually work to attract women with, y'know, personalities and brains and goals and ambitions and interests and hobbies and things like that, but the point of them is specifcially to weed out that kind of person. You use those rules, and the woman you get will be your pathetic brainless doormat slave!

[docorion.livejournal.com]

Hm. Maybe this is what I've been doing wrong all these years. If I'm "not that into you", I'll tell you so at the end of the date. "Y'know, it's been fun, you're a nice person, thanks for the date, I won't be calling." (Perhaps not that last). If I *am* interested, I will generally call you the next day or so, just to say hi, how are you, when can I see you again (I admit calling the very next day always seems like I'm desperate).

I'm not smart enough to play a 'homely' woman against a good looking one (and I'm with pheromone; how do either you or n0ire qualify as 'homely' in any context?) And sionnagh is probably still telling the story of the end of our first date-I shook her hand. Didn't want to seem forward, y'know.

Many men are terminally shy about initiating dating/sexual contact, though. (DAMHIKT). Advice of the type you are contemplating will be entirely welcome to those men, as I suspect it is of the form "Be yourself, be honest, and be prepared for the fact that some women won't be interested in you, *and that's OK*" As best as I can tell, one of the central tenets of modern heterosexual male dating is that if you cannot attract *every woman*, you can't attract *any woman*. Which is crap on its face, but no one ever says it that baldly.

[ironpoet.livejournal.com]

I should get a panel of women together and write a real dating advice book for men.

Not that this is a bad idea, but does dating advice really have to be gender specific? I'd be more interested in a book about how men and women (in whatever combination) should take equal roles in the dating process!

[dietrich.livejournal.com]

I WILL HELP YOU WRITE THIS BOOK PLEASE KTHXBYE.

Seriously, let's do it!!